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	<title>Comments on: Tombstone</title>
	<link>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/</link>
	<description>Mainly Western and Noir reviews</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=wordpress-mu-1.0</generator>

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		<title>by: anephric</title>
		<link>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2294</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 03:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2294</guid>
					<description>Sam Elliot's great in Tombstone (but then, he's pretty much great in everything), and far outshines Michael Madsen in the equivalent role in Wyatt Earp (but then, that film rather mistreats a lot of its subsiduary characters, even given its gargantuan running time, especially in the expanded cut).

Also, Tombstone far outdoes Wyatt Earp in the moustache department,

I'll shut up now and save my (semi) pro-Kasdanisms for when you actually move on to Wyatt Earp!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam Elliot&#8217;s great in Tombstone (but then, he&#8217;s pretty much great in everything), and far outshines Michael Madsen in the equivalent role in Wyatt Earp (but then, that film rather mistreats a lot of its subsiduary characters, even given its gargantuan running time, especially in the expanded cut).</p>
<p>Also, Tombstone far outdoes Wyatt Earp in the moustache department,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll shut up now and save my (semi) pro-Kasdanisms for when you actually move on to Wyatt Earp!
</p>
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		<title>by: Mike Sutton</title>
		<link>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2223</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 19:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2223</guid>
					<description>A word for Sam Elliott in &quot;Tombstone&quot; - one of the all-time great Western actors in one of his definitive roles. 

I vastly prefer &quot;Tombstone&quot; to &quot;Wyatt Earp&quot; on every level, finding it much more vigorous and entertaining - not to mention less sentimental.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A word for Sam Elliott in &#8220;Tombstone&#8221; - one of the all-time great Western actors in one of his definitive roles. </p>
<p>I vastly prefer &#8220;Tombstone&#8221; to &#8220;Wyatt Earp&#8221; on every level, finding it much more vigorous and entertaining - not to mention less sentimental.
</p>
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		<title>by: Livius</title>
		<link>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2212</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 11:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2212</guid>
					<description>I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Both 'Wyatt Earp' &amp;#38; 'Tombstone' have long divided opinion and clearly will continue to do so. They are very different films in terms of acting, pacing and style, and - for most people - admiration for one seems to go hand in hand with dislike for the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess we&#8217;ll just have to agree to disagree. Both &#8216;Wyatt Earp&#8217; &amp; &#8216;Tombstone&#8217; have long divided opinion and clearly will continue to do so. They are very different films in terms of acting, pacing and style, and - for most people - admiration for one seems to go hand in hand with dislike for the other.
</p>
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		<title>by: anephric</title>
		<link>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2196</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 02:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2196</guid>
					<description>There's &quot;realism&quot; and then there's having Liberace Lite in pancake makeup ponce about like The Terminator in a stetson :p

One of the &quot;failings&quot; of Kasdan's Earp is that it does exactly what John indicates (and is what I love about it): the characters are pretty unlikeable (Costner's Earp is quite hard to muster any sense of sympathy for, and doesn't come across as anyone's definition of hero) and, in attending to an anti-sensationalist telling of the myth, can seem to be quite dusty and dull (and, yes, pompous).  It's the antithesis of Dances With Wolves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s &#8220;realism&#8221; and then there&#8217;s having Liberace Lite in pancake makeup ponce about like The Terminator in a stetson :p</p>
<p>One of the &#8220;failings&#8221; of Kasdan&#8217;s Earp is that it does exactly what John indicates (and is what I love about it): the characters are pretty unlikeable (Costner&#8217;s Earp is quite hard to muster any sense of sympathy for, and doesn&#8217;t come across as anyone&#8217;s definition of hero) and, in attending to an anti-sensationalist telling of the myth, can seem to be quite dusty and dull (and, yes, pompous).  It&#8217;s the antithesis of Dances With Wolves.
</p>
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		<title>by: Livius</title>
		<link>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2177</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 22:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2177</guid>
					<description>I absolutely agree that realism or the lack of it doesn't have the least effect on what makes a good movie. I've always held the view that if you want a history lesson you should read a history book. 

As for Victor Mature, I know my opinion of him is really just a personal prejudice, but I like to indulge it. :)

Glad you've enjoyed this soon to end series John, I've enjoyed doing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely agree that realism or the lack of it doesn&#8217;t have the least effect on what makes a good movie. I&#8217;ve always held the view that if you want a history lesson you should read a history book. </p>
<p>As for Victor Mature, I know my opinion of him is really just a personal prejudice, but I like to indulge it. <img src='http://filmjournal.net/livius/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Glad you&#8217;ve enjoyed this soon to end series John, I&#8217;ve enjoyed doing it.
</p>
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		<title>by: John Hodson</title>
		<link>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2175</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 21:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2175</guid>
					<description>Without trying to seem combative, I don't give a damn about what's 'realistic' - these are 'the movies' after all - I care about what makes a good picture and I see much to enjoy in all three films mentioned here.

I've got a lot of time for Kilmer's fey interpretation (and indeed Russell's fire breathing, bantam cock Earp), I agree that Quaid makes a brilliant Holliday, and I personally don't think Mature was ever better; think of that wonderful Shakespeare scene, and picture him slumping into the dirt leaving his ever present handkerchief fluttering in the breeze - brings chills to my spine.

Whatever one thinks of their overall merit, every 'O.K. Corral' film brings something new to the table; the truth (whatever that is) is not only not very pretty and bereft of anyone to sympathise for, it's actually quite dull.

Agree, disagree; I'm enjoying this 'Earp' series Colin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without trying to seem combative, I don&#8217;t give a damn about what&#8217;s &#8216;realistic&#8217; - these are &#8216;the movies&#8217; after all - I care about what makes a good picture and I see much to enjoy in all three films mentioned here.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got a lot of time for Kilmer&#8217;s fey interpretation (and indeed Russell&#8217;s fire breathing, bantam cock Earp), I agree that Quaid makes a brilliant Holliday, and I personally don&#8217;t think Mature was ever better; think of that wonderful Shakespeare scene, and picture him slumping into the dirt leaving his ever present handkerchief fluttering in the breeze - brings chills to my spine.</p>
<p>Whatever one thinks of their overall merit, every &#8216;O.K. Corral&#8217; film brings something new to the table; the truth (whatever that is) is not only not very pretty and bereft of anyone to sympathise for, it&#8217;s actually quite dull.</p>
<p>Agree, disagree; I&#8217;m enjoying this &#8216;Earp&#8217; series Colin.
</p>
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		<title>by: Livius</title>
		<link>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2145</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 07:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2145</guid>
					<description>You know you managed to hit on the two interpretations of the role that I dislike the most. :)

I've written in an earlier review that I have serious issues with accepting Victor Mature in pretty much any western role. I quite like his performances in a number of other pictures but he just sticks out like a sore thumb in oaters - I just feel he doesn't belong. I generally don't worry too much about the degree of realism, but Kilmer was a lot closer to the actual Holliday than Mature, who looked the picture of hearty good health for a dying man - not to mention his not being a doctor of medicine, dying a the O.K. Corral etc.

As for 'Wyatt Earp', I'm going to look at that next. However, I will say in advance that I've never liked it one bit. It may be more accurate than 'Tombstone' in some respects, but that doesn't make it a better film. I see it as having too much of Costner written all over it, which for me means: dull, ponderous, long and more than a little pretentious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know you managed to hit on the two interpretations of the role that I dislike the most. <img src='http://filmjournal.net/livius/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve written in an earlier review that I have serious issues with accepting Victor Mature in pretty much any western role. I quite like his performances in a number of other pictures but he just sticks out like a sore thumb in oaters - I just feel he doesn&#8217;t belong. I generally don&#8217;t worry too much about the degree of realism, but Kilmer was a lot closer to the actual Holliday than Mature, who looked the picture of hearty good health for a dying man - not to mention his not being a doctor of medicine, dying a the O.K. Corral etc.</p>
<p>As for &#8216;Wyatt Earp&#8217;, I&#8217;m going to look at that next. However, I will say in advance that I&#8217;ve never liked it one bit. It may be more accurate than &#8216;Tombstone&#8217; in some respects, but that doesn&#8217;t make it a better film. I see it as having too much of Costner written all over it, which for me means: dull, ponderous, long and more than a little pretentious.
</p>
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		<title>by: anephric</title>
		<link>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2144</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 06:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://filmjournal.net/livius/2008/05/03/tombstone/#comment-2144</guid>
					<description>I'm not sure I'd call Val Kilmer the &quot;definitive&quot; Doc Holliday - sure, he's very camp and entertaining (actually, the only real reason I enjoy the film, as I find it pretty trashy) but in terms of characterisation, I'd take Dennis Quaid's utterly ornery and addled turn in Wyatt Earp, and Victor Mature's pathetic, earnest performance in My Darling Clementine.  Both of those films portray Holliday far more &quot;realistically&quot; than Tombstone, I might contend, seeing as the &quot;real&quot; Holliday wasn't supposed to be anything like the ultra-deadly pistoleer that Tombstone makes him out to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;d call Val Kilmer the &#8220;definitive&#8221; Doc Holliday - sure, he&#8217;s very camp and entertaining (actually, the only real reason I enjoy the film, as I find it pretty trashy) but in terms of characterisation, I&#8217;d take Dennis Quaid&#8217;s utterly ornery and addled turn in Wyatt Earp, and Victor Mature&#8217;s pathetic, earnest performance in My Darling Clementine.  Both of those films portray Holliday far more &#8220;realistically&#8221; than Tombstone, I might contend, seeing as the &#8220;real&#8221; Holliday wasn&#8217;t supposed to be anything like the ultra-deadly pistoleer that Tombstone makes him out to be.
</p>
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